Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

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JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:59 am

I'm trying to grapple with preserving Flippy disks (copying both side 0 and side 1) and at the same time distinguishing between 1571 disks for the copy process.

For a Panasonic drive modified for Flippy support, it would seem according the Kroflux manual the command would be:

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Panasonic dual sided dump:
dtc -p -b-8 -f<dumpdir/dumpfile> -i0 –y -g2 –i6 –l8
Although I haven't tried this, this would essentially copy side 0 and side 1 of a Flippy disk without actually having to flip the disk. And, it would also require a Flippy modified drive for this to work.

Question #1:

However, what about for a 1571 dual sided dump where Byte 3 in the BAM indicates Dual Sided? What would the command be? Perhaps:

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dtc -p -f<dumpdir/dumpfile> -i0 –y -g2 –i6 –l8
Where the -b-8 is omitted since we are truly not imaging a Flippy disk in this case.

Question #2:

Also, what would be the correct commands to generate a dual sided .g64 and dual sided .d71 output?

Question #3:

I'm assuming -i6 is the guided format. Is -i6 the guided format also for dual sided 1571 floppies (i.e. where Byte 3 in the BAM says it's Double Sided)?

Question #4:

When would -i6a be used?

Question #5:

Should track distance be 40 or 80? Or is this only relevant on the output format (i.e .g64, .d71)?

JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Tue May 01, 2018 5:48 am

Does a drive have to be aligned for Reading a floppy? Or, does it have to be aligned for Writing a floppy? Or both? :?:

JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Sun May 06, 2018 3:20 am

Here I have a C128 disk. Byte 3 says it's Dual Sided. So using the Kryoflux GUI (Preservation + CBM Dos selection) the command results in:

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DTC.exe -l15 -fC:\Dumps\Test30\track -g2 -i0 -fC:\Dumps\Test30.g64 -g2 -i22 -r5 -d0 -p -e83 -dd0
The GUI after it has copied both sides:

C128_DualSide_Dump_Test30.png

However, I see a lot of *H and *T's in the copy dump.

For the *H the error message in the GUI reports "Error: Extra data was found hidden in unused parts of the block header".

For the *T's the error message in the GUI reports "Error: Track number found is different to what it should be"

Question #1:
What should I make of these errors?

Question #2:
Would the above command be correct for dumping a C128 Dual Sided disk?

SomeGuy
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by SomeGuy » Sun May 06, 2018 4:46 am

The "H" normally just means that a sector has been written since it was formatted. For user data disks, just ignore that. For professionally mastered disks it is a sign a user may have altered something.

You also need the -k2 option (40 tracks) on the g64 output so you don't read garbage between tracks.

"T" means it doesn't understand the head/track numbering it has found. Looking at the KF manual, format type 22 (CBM GCR Image) only lists single sided.

JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Sun May 06, 2018 9:31 am

Here I'm dumping a empty C128 Double Sided disk with GUI:

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DTC.exe -l15 -fC:\Dumps\Test45\track -g2 -i0 -fC:\Dumps\Test45.g64 -g2 -k2 -i22a 
And I get from the GUI:
C128_DualSide_Dump_Test45.png
So it would seem that I'm copying Side 0, but am having trouble copying Side 1.

Question:

How do others copy a C128 Double Sided disk using Kryoflux?

JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Sun May 06, 2018 9:48 am

SomeGuy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 4:46 am
The "H" normally just means that a sector has been written since it was formatted. For user data disks, just ignore that. For professionally mastered disks it is a sign a user may have altered something.
Gotcha, so "H" simply means data has been written to that sector which is why they refer to it as modified!
SomeGuy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 4:46 am
You also need the -k2 option (40 tracks) on the g64 output so you don't read garbage between tracks.
I will add that in and give it a try! :)
SomeGuy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 4:46 am
"T" means it doesn't understand the head/track numbering it has found. Looking at the KF manual, format type 22 (CBM GCR Image) only lists single sided.
Referring to my earlier 3rd post:

Usually the resulting output is 2 g64 files. For example when I dumped it, it created the following 2 output files:
Test30_s0.g64
Test30_s1.g64

Looks like you are right, a g64 seems to be single sided only! Since it splits the files, is a g64 really a good output format then for a C128 Double Sided disk? I've yet to see a g64 that stores double sides. I'll have to look into the g64 format a bit more.

How does one combine this into a d71 so it's not split?

Aside from that, it looks like the Test30_s1.g64 is not correct, where the Test30_s0.g64 seem readable. It seems I am still not able to correctly read the 2nd side of a C128 Double Sided disk with Kryoflux yet. Hmmmm :(

brightcaster
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by brightcaster » Sun May 06, 2018 4:43 pm

It has all been discussed years ago in this forum ;-) Please use the search function with "dumping c1571 disks"...

SomeGuy
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by SomeGuy » Sun May 06, 2018 9:24 pm

Or you could provide a link: https://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=495

So basically dump as "CBM DOS sector image", specifying both sides, and then concatenate the two resulting d64 files.

So the KF does not natively support double sided, and I assume the second side will still show the track number errors. But if the "d64" is just an unstructured sector dump then it won't matter.

JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Wed May 09, 2018 7:09 am

I'm experimenting with the commands I listed earlier to copy both sides of a floppy with Kryoflux for C128 disks and C64 Flippy disks. :)

However, it turns out that the d64 dumps seem to be OK when viewed in DirMaster while the g64 dumps contain errors! :o

I've tried looking through the forums, but have not found much significant information that helps point in one direction or the other as to the cause.

Looking at them side by side in DirMaster:
MyFloppy_g64VSd64.png
You can see the g64 shows error on the left, while the d64 seems OK on the right.

However, for the g64 you can see there is an error code of 20 (Header Block Not Found) for Track 7, Sector 10. And you can see on other sectors that you get other error codes such as 23 (Checksum Error in Data Block) or 22 (Data Block Not Preset). So the question is a big WHY?

The d64 dump has NO errors. When looking at sectors the data can be seen and it looks good! But, having KryoFlux create g64's and I seemingly end up with error filled g64 dumps. Why?

At first, I was thinking that maybe something is wrong with DirMaster in reading the g64. But, like I said, when looking at the sector data, you can complete see data is in fact missing and understand why DirMaster is complaining about it.

For example, here's Track 7, Sector 10 as mentioned from above when looking at it:
MyFloppy_g64Bad.png
Again, here the data is completely missing! :?

You may ask, "Well, are you using the same stream file for creating both the d64 and g64 dumps?". I would say that is a fair question! The answer would be yes, they are from the same stream. So, I have no idea why there are inconsistencies? :shock:

Question:

If KryoFlux can generate good data for Track 7, Sector 10 in a d64, why would it NOT be able to create a g64 dump that has good data within the very same track? :?:

JasonCA
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:37 am
Location: California

Re: Kryoflux Flippy Disk Preservation Commands

Post by JasonCA » Wed May 09, 2018 7:30 am

SomeGuy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:24 pm
Or you could provide a link: https://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=495
And thank you for the link! :)
SomeGuy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:24 pm
So basically dump as "CBM DOS sector image", specifying both sides, and then concatenate the two resulting d64 files.
I gave this a try and will post more on this later. That seems like the only way to create a d71 dump: I am able to concatenate two d64 disk images of a double sided C128 disk and the data when viewed in DirMaster seems to be perfectly readable on both sides.
SomeGuy wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:24 pm
So the KF does not natively support double sided, and I assume the second side will still show the track number errors. But if the "d64" is just an unstructured sector dump then it won't matter.
Yes, it would seem that once the KryoFlux reaches Side B on a C128 Double Sided Floppy, it will still show Track errors which I guess is WHY the KryoFlux GUI also shows the errors. I take it you are referring to this earlier posting:

C128_DualSide_Dump_Test45.png

At first I thought maybe the KryoFlux GUI doesn't support correctly showing the reads of a C128 Double Sided floppy for some reason. However, looking at the output from KryoFlux itself it shows:

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46.1    : frev: 24404, drift: 0.166 us, tfer: 139833 B/s, rpm: 360.498
46.1    : band: 3.506 us, 7.010 us, 10.435 us?
46.1    : base: 3.505 us [99.616%], band: 3.506 us, 7.010 us, 10.435 us?
46.1    : CBM DOS: OK*, trk: 024[059], sec: 19, *T
Here above you can see the *T just as you would see on the GUI.

I wonder why Kryoflux has to work that way for Side B? Maybe this is something that can be improved for C128 double sided floppies? Or, for all I know, there is a good reason it should show *T's for the second side? I was hoping it would simply be an incorrect setting. Hmmm

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