I can't say I didn't see that coming...

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Darkstar
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I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by Darkstar » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:21 pm

http://git.redump.net/mess/commit/?id=1 ... d5e8010c6f

I thought they'd start with the DRAFT format but hey, you never know...

NOW might be a good time to supply them with a complete CRC/SHA1 list of "known good dumps" (i.e. from the original CAPS/SPS images) to avoid the (very slim) chance of ending up with non-original (i.e. modified/hacked/...) IPF file hashes in MESS

-Darkstar

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IFW
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by IFW » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:41 pm

I've checked that, and it's a very small portion of what the real library does.
However, as I said many times we are going to publish the real source for the library - and it's been available to whomever asked for it for years.

TeaRex
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by TeaRex » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:36 pm

IFW wrote:I've checked that, and it's a very small portion of what the real library does.
However, as I said many times we are going to publish the real source for the library - and it's been available to whomever asked for it for years.
Since AFAIK, MESS has a policy of not including anything that can't be published under their own license, I guess reverse engineering is the best way for them to do it.

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IFW
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by IFW » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:42 pm

Funny you mention that because we want to publish the library source under MAME licence for the time being. :lol:
So reverse-engineering is completely wasted I am afraid - apart from the having some fun with it :)
I've already emailed Olivier about it.

TeaRex
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by TeaRex » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:28 am

The MAME license would be great and I'm glad you have finally agreed on something. Keep up the good work!

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IFW
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by IFW » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:51 am

We actually decided on that last week, as it's been very busy for us with various work - both visible, and otherwise ;)
We are considering other licences as well, but wanted to go with MAME first and see how it goes.

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mr.vince
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by mr.vince » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:35 am

I know that there will be theories and other bull around, but I can remember we said we would be taking care of making the lib open after writing is out.

So writing is out... and there comes the lib. I nevertheless appreciate there is another implementation now, because people will be able to compare and learn and take whatever is best for them. As I see it, the MESS implementation is heavily linked with MESS itself, and has a few "shortcuts" here and there, while ours is completely standalone and portable.

Just give us a day or two to wrap things up as planned, to add the correct info files and version ids.

galibert
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by galibert » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:14 pm

Well, the Mess implementation is not a library and does not pretend to be one. It's does not include a FDC either, it's only a converter to the Mess internal representation (which is pure index-synced flux information). And it also only implements what is actually used in released images. The side effect of all that is that it's approximatively ten times smaller than the lib. And frankly having a simpler but to-the-point implementation around can have its charm.

Sorry if I pushed a release a little earlier that you expected. It was, errr, not obvious that anything would actually happen. And it was a lot of fun, starting with making Mess able to handle a physical representation of the floppy data.

I'm not decided yet on whether to integrate your (near future) release in Mess or just comment my code a little and describe the previously unknown slots. I'll have to think about it, it has pros and cons...

OG.

galibert
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by galibert » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:22 pm

Darkstar wrote:I thought they'd start with the DRAFT format but hey, you never know...
DRAFT has some issues, but the main one it that it doesn't exist publically at this point in time. There are 3 problems with supporting kryoflux streams, which are:
- it's a multi-file format, and mess sucks at handling multi-file, especially when they're loosely related
- it stores multiple revolutions, so we need to average the reads something, and outside of a context of analysis (where you try to "understand" what's going on) it's somewhat risky
- there are close to no public kryoflux images floating around

Meanwhile, IPF is a single-file generative format with thousands of images "out there". Both easy to support and useful. So well, here it is :-)

OG.

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IFW
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Re: I can't say I didn't see that coming...

Post by IFW » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:37 pm

No problem :lol:

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