8" drive support

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Malvineous
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8" drive support

Post by Malvineous » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:55 am

Not sure if anyone else will be using 8" drives with the KryoFlux but I thought I might start a thread with progress in case there is anyone else around who would like to do this.

I have just tried connecting an NEC FD1165-A to the KryoFlux but with no luck. According to all the interface specs this should work, but the KryoFlux behaved in much the same way as it does with a 360K DD 5.25" PC drive.

I did try hooking the drive up to an old PC, configured as a 5.25" 1.2MB drive but the PC didn't seem able to see this particular drive either. I have another 8" drive (Shugart SA800) which did work when hooked up to a different PC (although I had to switch it off when the 1970's era power supply started smelling funny), so if I can get a replacement power supply for that I'll try it too - but it looks like things might have to wait until the KF is working with DD drives first!

If anyone else is interested in this or able to try themselves, let me know!

hkzlab
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by hkzlab » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:17 am

I'm interested!
I have an 8" drive out of an old AS/400 and a bunch of old software i need to dump, but i still have to build a cable to connect it to a pc and a psu to power it: no time these days with university...
Yet if i see that these drives get supported, i might get motivated enough to force-free some time!

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IFW
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by IFW » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:18 am

We don't have any 8'' drives at the moment - and supporting them without access to one is not trivial.
We've seen one last week though (SA 800), and from what I could see it will require different cabling/signalling/adaptor plus some weird PSU connections plus probably using some very slow timings for drive access.

However if anyone can get a working drive to us with disks and with all the necessary PSUs etc, I could take a look.

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OCMoe
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by OCMoe » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:56 am

I'll probably do a little testing with what we have available. It's not much, unfortunately, just a few CBM 8-inchers and a 20 ton IBM 19" rack drive (including a "danger! don't drop this on your foot" sticker :) ). Then again, our collection of non-empty 8" disks is likewise small.

From my preliminary online research, it really should work without much pain. Interface differences are supposedly minor and there are several guides out there how to hook up a 5.25" disk to an 8" system or vice-versa. At least one of our drives should be 5.25HD compatible, if I didn't mix up the drive specs. I'll keep you updated -- we just started on the KryoFlux.

BTW, what's the matter about DD drives and the KryoFlux?

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IFW
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by IFW » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:14 am

48 TPI drives are not directly supported as they are not really useful for dumping/preserving most disks - the only exception being probably the 3'' drives used for CPC and Spectrum+3 as there is no 96 TPI alternative for them.
You can use 48 TPI drives anyway with setting the correct end track option and the likes. If you look around you can find a thread with batch files containing how to do it exactly.

The only thing that does not work in the current public version is maxtrack calibration for 48 TPI drives, as that requires direct support - the next software version however allows correct maxtrack detection for 48 TPI drives too.

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Malvineous
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by Malvineous » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:39 am

I purchased an adapter from DBit to hook up my 8" floppies to a standard 34-pin controller, it is also capable of generating one additional signal needed for writing (but this is not required for reading disks.)

The only tricky thing was getting a cable with a 50-pin IDC connector on one end (for the adapter) and a 50-pin edge connector on the other (for the Shugart drive.) Luckily I was able to obtain a dual floppy 19" rackmount case which included one of these cables.

The NEC drives already had 50-pin IDC connectors on them, so I was able to snip off the plastic connector-key from an old SCSI cable and use that instead.

If anyone is thinking of buying an 8" drive, make sure you get power supply specs first. It seems that most (all?) Shugarts require mains power for the motors, so you'll need to get one that works with your local 220-240V or 110V supply. Alternatively the newer NEC drives I have (FD1165-A, out of an NEC APC) only need +24VDC and +5VDC.

Namida88
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by Namida88 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:04 pm

Malvineous wrote:I purchased an adapter from DBit to hook up my 8" floppies to a standard 34-pin controller, it is also capable of generating one additional signal needed for writing (but this is not required for reading disks.)
Reading your post, I also bought one adapter.
Were you succesful into connecting a NEC FD1165 to KryoFlux and test maxtrack ? (I am not sure the NEC 8" drive are Shugart compliant)

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Malvineous
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by Malvineous » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:14 am

I haven't yet been successful connecting the drive to the KF, but then I haven't been successful connecting it to a PC either. According to the NEC FD1165 manual from bitsavers.org the drive is Shugart compatible but I'm not sure whether my test PC is compatible (Gigabyte GA-6BXC / Celeron 300A.)

I did try the DBit adapter with a Shugart SA800 in a modern Dell PC (Pentium 4 2.8GHz) and the head would load when the BIOS tried to boot off a floppy but sadly I didn't get any further as the drive's PSU began to smell bad (looks like the 1970s capacitors are leaking.)

As a side note I had to desolder a couple of pins off the DBit adapter so I could physically plug the cables into it.

Namida88
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by Namida88 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:33 am

I found the PINOUT of NEC1165A :

 1 WINDOW/O
 3 MFM/I
 5 READ DATA/O
 7 WRITE PROTECT/O
 9 TRACK 00/O
11 WRITE GATE/I
13 WRITE DATA/I
15 STEP/I
17 DIRECTION SELECT/I
19 DRV SELECT 3/I
21 DRV SELECT 2/I
23 DRV SELECT 1/I
25 DRV SELECT 0/I
27 VFO SYNC/I
29 READY/O
31 INDEX/O
33 HEAD LOAD/I
35 IN USE/I
37 SIDE SELECT/I
39 NC(DISK CHANGE)
41 TWO SIDE/I
43 NC
45 FILE UNSAFE
47 UNSAFE RESET/I
49 LOW CURRENT/I
OTHERS all GND

Not sure what is the standard PINOUT of a standard 8" Shugart drive (using 50 PIN).

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Malvineous
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Re: 8" drive support

Post by Malvineous » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:51 am

It's much the same, although the NEC has a few extra signals on some of the pins not used by Shugart:

* NEC manuals
* SA800 manual (original Shugart interface)

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