IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

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Manxbob
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:27 pm

IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by Manxbob » Wed May 22, 2013 6:43 pm

Just purchased the Personal Edition.

Its the first time in 20+ years this carefully stored Panasonic Matsushita JU475-5AKO drive has been powered up.

1. Can someone guide me to either the command line sequence(s) or GUI procedures on how to dump IBM / MS DOS 5.25in floppy contents for 1.2Mb and 360k disks to hard disk? I cannot make any headway with the information supplied.
2. Does the dump separate the disk contents into files? Are floppy file names transferred?
3. What other software reads the dump file if this is not the case?
4. What is the recommended process to get disk contents from FDD to HDD in the same directory names and structure?

This is probably like water off a duck's back to most forum users but would really appreciate novice level assistance!

Many thanks
Bob

drdanj
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by drdanj » Wed May 22, 2013 10:29 pm

First thing is to calibrate your drive:
dtc -c2

The dumps are "image files" - think of them as a virtual disc, held in a single file. You can use winimage to access them and pull the files out with all the directory structures and filenames intact. http://www.winimage.com/

Then, if you just want to dump your data from unprotected discs to get the files off, for 1.2MB discs I believe you need:
dtc -fmyfile.img -v360 -i4

For 360k disks it should be:
dtc -fmyfile.img -v300 -k2 -i4 (your 1.2mb drive will probably be spinning at 360rpm, this is just saying that no matter what the speed the drive is working at you expect things to be interpreted at 300rpm, the -k2 makes it double step the head as these are 40 track discs)

where "myfile.img" is the filename you want to save the image as.

d.

Manxbob
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by Manxbob » Sat May 25, 2013 11:33 am

Hi DrDanj,
Many thanks for this insight into the Kryoflux system - have far better understanding now thanks to you! Thanks also for the link- much appreciated.

Has anyone developed a "read only" GUI aimed at just this type of recovery activity for FD's? It would definately help speed up and semi-automate a process of recovering data from dozens/hunderds of disks.
Thanks for your help
ManxBob

drdanj
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by drdanj » Sat May 25, 2013 3:00 pm

If you have a look now at the gui that came with the kryoflux, and the manual, you can set a variety of profiles. You just need to set one up for 360k PC format and another for 1.2MB, then it's just a question of selecting which type of disc it is, typing the name and pressing go. In all honesty it's not actually any quicker than using the command line as for the most part you can just press the up arrow and retype the filename. It does give you some nice visualisation of what's going on though.

The settings for a 360k disc would be:
MFM, 40 tracks, 9 sectors/track, 512bytes/sector, double sided, 300rpm

For a 1.2MB disc:
MFM, 80 tracks, 15 sectors/track, 512bytes/sector, double sided, 360rpm

d.

hydr0x
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by hydr0x » Sun May 26, 2013 8:32 am

drdanj wrote:If you have a look now at the gui that came with the kryoflux, and the manual, you can set a variety of profiles. You just need to set one up for 360k PC format and another for 1.2MB, then it's just a question of selecting which type of disc it is, typing the name and pressing go. In all honesty it's not actually any quicker than using the command line as for the most part you can just press the up arrow and retype the filename. It does give you some nice visualisation of what's going on though.

The settings for a 360k disc would be:
MFM, 40 tracks, 9 sectors/track, 512bytes/sector, double sided, 300rpm

For a 1.2MB disc:
MFM, 80 tracks, 15 sectors/track, 512bytes/sector, double sided, 360rpm

d.
I suggested this before, I really don't understand why these standard settings for the IBM floppy types are not available as profiles in the GUI. As this topic and many others show, people have problems coming up with them on their own.

drdanj
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by drdanj » Sun May 26, 2013 2:44 pm

hydr0x wrote: I suggested this before, I really don't understand why these standard settings for the IBM floppy types are not available as profiles in the GUI. As this topic and many others show, people have problems coming up with them on their own.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the default MFM setting should, assuming it's not protected, create sector images of any standard format MFM disc straight out of the box. I must confess to not having tried and I tend to be belt and braces with these things, hence the profiles. Someone will probably confirm.

What might be nice is a sticky in the forum with a list of known geometries for "standard" disc formats?

d.

notbobsmith
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Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:30 am

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by notbobsmith » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:56 am

Hi,
I recently purchased a board and I also have been having difficulties imaging 5.25" DOS formatted floppies.

My drive is TEAC FD-55GFR. I've tried making images using the instructions in this thread. (dtc -fmyfile.img -v300 -k2 -i4). I've done this with several floppies and I always end up with images that are half the size of the floppy: 180k (always exactly 184,320 bytes). WinImage gives an error when I try to open them. I've used DOSBox to mount the image and I can see the files, but DOSBox hangs when I try to run an executable and text files are gibberish. I tried doing it with the GUI, and all the sectors are fine (except 1, which an error says may be a result of copy protection). I've also tried this with backups from uncopyprotected disks that I made ages ago and end up with the same image files that can't be opened. In this case I get the error "Error: Extra data was found hidden in unused parts of the block header" in almost every sector. I was wondering if someone could help me with what I am doing wrong.


Also, what is the proper way to disconnect board from the computer? After removing the device in Windows (I'm using Windows Vista by the way), I removed the USB cable and my speakers made a pretty horrific noise. The drive was still powered. I am guessing I should unplug the drive first?

Thanks for your help.

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IFW
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Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by IFW » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:41 am

notbobsmith,

The "extra data" - *H warning if you use the command line - means that the track has been modified since the disk was duplicated or formatted.
If it is an user written disk, not an original one, chances are you will see plenty of those and they are safe to ignore.
For an original disk, it is a good indication that the disk content is no longer authentic as someone at some point has made changes to it.

As for the the 360K disk: it sounds like 40*9*512 bytes, which would suggest only side 0 of the disk contained legible data.
It's either a single-sided disk, or your drive head has become dirty or misaligned and can not read side 1 of the disks.
To verify which case, it would be useful if you could post the stream files (NOT the sector image of 184320 bytes) of a disk that should be definitely double-sided, yet it images as single-sided.

Thanks.

notbobsmith
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:30 am

Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by notbobsmith » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:37 am

Thank you for your reply,

Here is a link to the stream files:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwdcwcbc6css1 ... k1copy.zip
I hope this works, I haven't used Dropbox before. This is from a backup copy that I made since I know it is a double-sided disk (it's a BASF 2S/2D). To be honest, I always thought that double sided meant that you needed to flip it over to read/write to it.

I think you may be right about the drive head. Using the GUI, all I get are grey squares on Side 1. I am looking into options, but if this is the case, can you offer suggestions about what I can do about it. Thanks for your help.

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IFW
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Re: IBM DOS 5.25in NOVICE USER HELP REQUESTED

Post by IFW » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:56 pm

If you take a look at the scatter plot in the GUI for any of the tracks on side 1, they only contain noise.
Head is dirty, misaligned or damaged - or any combination of those...
You could first try and clean it, and see if it improves.

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