Reading FM formats don't work

All questions about how to use KryoFlux go here.
firefly
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:32 am

Reading FM formats don't work

Post by firefly »

I have tried 2 TEAC 5.25 floppy drives one operating at 300rpm and the other at 360 rpm.

Used the -v switch and -z1 switch -i3 and various other switches but it cannot detect or read any FM formatted disks.

I tried BBC micro DFS 80 trk 10 sector 256 sector size disks.

All confirmed to be working and can be dumped without problems with Disk2FDI

User avatar
mr.vince
Posts: 2130
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by mr.vince »

Please be more specific: command line used, please turn on full logging -l15.

Did you have the chance to test any other format, e.g. C64 or IBM PC?

firefly
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by firefly »

5.25 Tests
dtc -fAppleDOS.img -i8 -l15 -g0 -d1 -k2 -v360 1>>Applelog.txt 2>>Appleerror.txt (Dumps OK errors on 3 tracks)

dtc -fIBMDos.img -i4 -l15 -d1 -v360 1>>IBMlog.txt 2>>IBMerror.txt (IBM HDD 1.2M 5.25 disk does not dump)

dtc -fBBCA.img -i3 -l15 -d1 -z1 -g0 -v360 1>>BBClog.txt 2>>BBCerror.txt (BBC 80trk fm disk does not dump)

dtc -fAmiga.img -i5 -l15 -d1 -v360 1>>Amigalog.txt 2>>Amigaerror.txt (80Trk Amiga 5.25 disk dumps ok)

3.5 inch test
dtc -fArchimedesD.img -i4 -l15 -d0 -z3 1>>Archilog.txt 2>>Archierror.txt (Archimedes Disk ADFS D or ADFS E does not dump)

dtc -fAmiga.img -i5 -l15 -d0 1>>Amigalog.txt 2>>Amigaerror.txt (Amiga Dosdisk dumps OK)

dtc -fibm.img -i4 -l15 -d0 1>>ibmlog.txt 2>>ibmerror.txt (IBM disk dumps OK)

dtc -fatarist.img -i4 -l15 -d0 1>>ataristlog.txt 2>>ataristerror.txt (AtariST disk dumps OK)

dtc -f1581.img -i4 -l15 -d0 1>>1581log.txt 2>>1581error.txt (1581 disk dumps OK)

dtc -fProDOS.img -i8 -l15 -g0 -d0 1>>Prodoslog.txt 2>>Prodoserror.txt (Disk does not dump)

dtc -fBBCA.img -i3 -l15 -d0 -z1 -g0 1>>BBClog.txt 2>>BBCerror.txt (BBC 80trk fm 3.5inch disk does not dump)

dtc -fADFSL.img -i4 -l15 -d0 -z1 1>>ADFSLlog.txt 2>>ADFSLerror.txt (BBC ADFS L MFM 3.5inch disk does not dump)

Need to track my C64 disk down and Atari disk down to test but so far my results are not to good.

These are typical output from unsuccessful log files with similar results, all disk are confirmed to be working before dumping.

Section from a failed BBC FM Dump Logfile

0026c87c: status=0
0026c890: status=0
0026c8a4: reset=0
0026cc0b: descriptor=C2 DiskSystem/version=1.00/date=Oct 12 2010/time=20:06:17
0026cc1f: device=1
0026cc33: density=0
0026cc47: min_track=0
0026cc5b: max_track=83
KryoFlux DiskTool Console, v1.00 beta 7, uiv.1, Oct 12 2010
(c) 2009-2010 Istvan Fabian, Softpres, http://www.softpres.org
Licensed for private, non-commercial use only.

0026cc6f: motor=1
0026cf80: side=0
0026cf94: track=0
0026cfa8: stream=1
0026d1dd: stream=0
00.0 : frev: 35228, drift: 0.125 us, tfer: 196929 B/s, rpm: 360.046
00.0 : base: 3.985 us [99.699%], band: 1.818 us, 3.985 us, 7.979 us
00.0 : FM: <unformatted>, *N
0026d219: motor=1
0026d22d: side=1
0026d241: track=0
0026d255: stream=1
0026d486: stream=0
00.1 : frev: 33353, drift: 0.042 us, tfer: 183507 B/s, rpm: 360.056
00.1 : base: 3.981 us [99.568%], band: 3.147 us, 3.981 us, 7.967 us
00.1 : FM: <unformatted>, *N
0026d4ae: motor=1
0026d4c2: side=0
0026d4d6: track=1
0026d4fd: stream=1
0026d72f: stream=0

Section from Archimedes ADFS D logfile

00393fba: status=0
00393fce: status=0
00393fe2: reset=0
00394331: descriptor=C2 DiskSystem/version=1.00/date=Oct 12 2010/time=20:06:17
00394345: device=0
00394359: density=0
0039436d: min_track=0
00394381: max_track=83
KryoFlux DiskTool Console, v1.00 beta 7, uiv.1, Oct 12 2010
(c) 2009-2010 Istvan Fabian, Softpres, http://www.softpres.org
Licensed for private, non-commercial use only.

00394395: motor=1
003946a6: side=0
003946ba: track=0
003946ce: stream=1
00394961: stream=0
00.0 : frev: 46577, drift: 0.021 us, tfer: 215973 B/s, rpm: 299.930
00.0 : base: 2.002 us [99.780%], band: 3.994 us, 6.005 us, 7.972 us
00.0 : MFM: <unformatted>, *N
003949b1: motor=1
003949c5: side=1
003949d9: track=0
003949ed: stream=1
00394c8e: stream=0

Drives used in test.
5.25 Drive model TEAC FD-55GFR 7193-U
3.5 Drive model Sony MPF920

Is there anyway I could RAW image these disks I am having trouble being recognised and send them to you so you can figure out why they not decoding? I can create FDI with another util / set-up I have using disk2fdi or something else.

User avatar
mr.vince
Posts: 2130
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by mr.vince »

Sure, make some forensic dumps and we'll look at them.

Here's how: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24&p=100#p99

To upload the dumps, please contact us here: http://www.softpres.org/contact

User avatar
IFW
Posts: 3079
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by IFW »

The *N is a warning. It means that the sector size found is different from what the selected image type expects as default.
Try changing it with the -z command, or you can just post a track (usually 00.0 should be fine) and I can take a look and tell the correct parameters.

User avatar
mr.vince
Posts: 2130
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by mr.vince »

Dump tracks 0-2:

DTC -d0 -fstreamfilename -i0 -i2 -s0 -e1

firefly
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by firefly »

I have done some dumps as requested of the disks which I am having trouble being recognised.
Using the following commands :-

DTC -d0 -fstreamfilename -i0 -i2 -s0 -e1
DTC -d1 -fstreamfilename -i0 -i2 -s0 -e1

I have submitted a ticket and activated it and I am awaiting further instructions.

I have organised them in directories and packaged them in a handy 6MB Zip file.

These contain 5.25 and 3.5 FM MFM GCR Dumps.

I have managed to find some of my Atari FM and C64 disks which I can confirm that they seem to be recognised and can dumped OK.

Although a set of CPM disk I have found does not seem to be recognised. The trouble with CPM disks is they are probably hundreds of different format configurations in existence. Therefore a method of auto detecting different formats is a must have feature.

Its seems that sectors sizes which differ from 512 i.e 256 or 1024 are have difficulty being detected and dumped, even after I specify the correct sector size on the command line.

User avatar
IFW
Posts: 3079
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by IFW »

Normal sector dumps used by emulators and tools are only capable of holding only a fixed sector size.
DTC defaults to using the "expected" values normally and warns the user when the disk cannot be represented with the selected format.
This is because the tool can generate non-standard, arbitrary files, but chances are they won't work in any emulator or tool - so it's up to the user whether to use them or not.

Also, standard sector dumps do not have descriptions of their content - emulators and tools simply take the image size and hope to get the paramaters right by simply knowing the expected sector size for the format.
This is all fine for user written disks, not so fine for anything custom be it commercial or home written.

These are limitations of all the sector dump "formats" commonly used - given how they work and contain no disk or track geometry information could hardly be called a real format they are really, literally speaking straights dumps of sector content, hence why I stick with calling them sector dumps, not formats.

The GUI will allow saving preferences e.g. you understand the parameters of say a synth disk, you can save those parameters and re-use later.
Of course you can still do this, by saving a batch file for your command line arguments, just less convenient.

User avatar
IFW
Posts: 3079
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by IFW »

There is no difference whatsoever dumping any kind of sector size - it's exactly the same data read and the hardware does not read sectors, only flux transitions.

firefly
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Reading FM formats don't work

Post by firefly »

This is all great an that but it still does not change the fact that I can not get the hardware to read / dump some of the disks I feed into the drives.

I have submitted a ticket and activated it but are still waiting for further instructions of what to do with the raw disks streams I have dumped.

The auto detection of the inserted disk, format which I mentioned would help with the program configuration.

The old infamous DOS anadisk program can detect/analyse the format of MFM and FM disks when run.
Disk2FDI which is a wire linked to the parallel port card and a floppy can detect and display on screen information about the format it thinks its dumping.
Last edited by firefly on Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply