Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

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SomeGuy
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by SomeGuy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:08 am

I'm a little baffled. The posted stream is useless noise.

If it were me, I'd do some additional testing between this older PC and the Kryoflux drive to ensure things are really working 100%. If this older PC can write these kinds of disk, then there is little reason why the KF would not read something.

A couple of thoughts: perhaps this is a drive alignment issue? Can normal DOS disks formatted and written in the PC be read OK with the Kryoflux? (Seem to indicate it did, but perhaps just for sanity, post a stream from such a test). Can DOS disks written with the KF be read in the PC?

Perhaps try attaching the drive from the PC to Kryoflux instead.

Since we are talking about 1.2mb drives and disks: When reading and writing with the Kryoflux, are you setting the density line as "logic low" to indicate high density? You are using high density 1.2mb disks for this, rather than low density 360k disks, right (although that would create a different, easily identifiable pattern of errors). Do the disks format OK in DOS?

Orkney
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by Orkney » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:34 am

Thanks much Some Guy - I have tried using the TEAC, the Panasonic, the Mitsumi with similar results.

But the idea of debugging using 1.2mb disks is a good one. I will give that a try. The disks being used for this are new Maxell 2SHD blanks. The drive on the AT can read and write 1.2MB disks no problem, as can the Mitsumi that I am using with the Kryoflux under a direct motherboard attachment and DOS / Windows XP. But let me try to do it with Kryoflux and see what happens.

Anyone know what software zrX used to create that graph? I would guess once that looks like something less "SciFi" I can tell I am on the correct path.

Thanks again, all

Bruce

brightcaster
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by brightcaster » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:30 am

Well, I still think that it's a mains hum problem. Could it be an earth or ground loop? Is it possible to connect the drive with an external power supply that has no ground connection?

You can get similiar vizualisation as ZRX showed in his posting with the track analyzer of the HxC tool:

https://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_dri ... r_soft.zip

David

Orkney
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by Orkney » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:49 pm

Thanks all for the great advice thus far. Given some of the guidance, I created a freshly formatted DOS 5.25" floppy, copied a file to it, and began working with Kryoflux. Using the GUI, I read the floppy into a set of preservation mode stream files, and immediately attempted to write it back to a blank disk. I was once again presented with the "The image is completely unformatted after analysis" error.

Image

In order to try and further figuring this stuff out, I have uploaded the stream files for this DOS floppy to Dropbox. Let me know if anyone has any ideas why this seems to fail. Thank you everyone for all of the time trying to help me get a clue.

Bruce

Stream Files: https://www.dropbox.com/transfer/cap_pi ... ZxgovMnqjo

ZrX
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:09 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by ZrX » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:53 pm

From the first post:

"77 tracks of 16 sectors of 256 bytes, double side, single density, 500kb/s data rate"

This is somewhat confusing, as 500kb/s would mean the media is high density, not single density. Also 16x 256 byte sectors would fit nicely on a double density disk.

Are both drives 1.2MB HD drives?

If the disks are HD floppies and written in a DD-drive or using DD-mode then results can be quite unpredictable.

The graph was generated using my own custom software. HxC will generate something similar, tho I'm not sure if it was able to plot the raw flux data or just the decoded data.

Orkney
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by Orkney » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:12 pm

Thanks ZrX, I agree that the given description by Pascal from his PPG Waveterm A reading tool did not quite make sense to me, but I chalked it up to not being a floppy expert. The original disks that came with the Waveterm were all HD, and I have been using HD disks since. The drives I am using now are standard PC 1.2MB HD floppy drives, and on the "old PC" they seem to correctly read / write the PPG floppies without problem.

The story of how PPG came up with this floppy geometry is a bit odd, and Hermann Seib has some documentation on it here: https://www.hermannseib.com/english/syn ... floppy.htm

But it seems I have some kind of oddity with my Kryoflux setup, as I get more or less the same error attempting to write stream files of a bog-standard DOS floppy.

Thanks again for your help.

Bruce

ZrX
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:09 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by ZrX » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:34 pm

Google for some Amiga ADF disk imagefiles and try to write one of those as is, then dump the written disk. If that works out then there shouldn't be anything wrong with your setup.

Orkney
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by Orkney » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:48 pm

Excellent idea - let me give that a try.

Bruce

brightcaster
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by brightcaster » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:51 pm

The DOS disk looks similar to the one before, presenting nothing but noise and hum...

It may be nothing written on it, so that the drives AGC switches to maximum gain while trying to read the data from the surface thus bringing up noise and hum!

Is the write protection jumper on the kryoflux in the correct position?

David

Orkney
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:17 pm

Re: Errors Attempting To Write Stream Files

Post by Orkney » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Hey David, thanks for that idea. So the DOS floppy is good, and has plenty of data on it. The AT system with the 5.25" floppy attached (non Kryoflux system) reads and writes that data without error. When I am home tonight working with it, I will try using a different floppy drive (maybe the one that wrote the disk) attached to the Kryoflux board. I was trying to not pull that AT system apart, but it seems the path to discovery may lead that route.

Is the "nothing but noise and hum" data the reason I get the message "The image is completely unformatted after analysis"?

Thanks again for helping out.

Bruce

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