Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

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mcc
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am

Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mcc » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:58 pm

Hi,

WARNING!
RAW NEWBIE ALERT!

I am on the way to buy a KryoFlux to rescue my ATARI ST 1024 and ATARI 800 treasures from
their floppies.

As I understood the whole magic of KryoFlux at the moment:
I need a "raw" 3.5" floppy drive and a "raw" 5.25" floppy drive as this were the formats
my ATARIs support.

Where can I read which one to buy, how much they cost "normally" and what brands and models
are recommended or what NOT to buy?

By the way:
Does one know this book?
http://www.clausbrod.de/cgi-bin/view.pl ... enkleister
??? ;) :) :)
In the era of the ATARI ST 1024 a must-have...

Cheers!
Meino

User avatar
mr.vince
Posts: 2101
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mr.vince » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:12 pm

Meino, would you mind using the search function before asking... ;)

_Every_ shugart compatible drive does what you are looking for, so please take a peek here:
https://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4

mcc
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mcc » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:02 pm

mr.vince wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:12 pm
Meino, would you mind using the search function before asking... ;)

_Every_ shugart compatible drive does what you are looking for, so please take a peek here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4
Yes, of course, I did.

I found a LIST of drives already...But I am searching for only one drive to buy ... a recommended one.
For example: Questions in my head are: Are 82 tracks enough? Is Panasonic "better" than TEAC
(as an example), is a certain brand known to be complicated to power, because it needs
12V AND 5V or something even more exotic?
The list shows only "working" drives but not under what circumstances they work how well?
I have one 5.25" drive with a PCB connector (see extra thread)...is there a way to "shugart-ify"
it somehow (are the electrical signals are identical and only the connector does not fit...or?)?

Many question which will be simplified too much when condensed to a simple "working", I think.
Is there a list of features/attributes one should look for when hunting for good and recommended drives?

How should I decide?

I am still confused about all this...

Cheers!
Meino

ivandiaz
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by ivandiaz » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:06 am

5,25" drives (and 3") almost universally used 12v and 5v, it is not exotic at all. 8" drives used 24v but I don't think these are relevant to your needs.

Also, 5,25" drives had PCB connectors (with one gap in the middle) by default, the bog-standard PC floppy cable had connectors for both these and 3,5" drives.

Teac is a good brand of floppy drives, but AFAIK these can not be flippy-modded as the Panasonic, and Atari 800 disks are flippy, so best start searching about flippy mods.

mcc
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mcc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:37 pm

ivandiaz wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:06 am
5,25" drives (and 3") almost universally used 12v and 5v, it is not exotic at all. 8" drives used 24v but I don't think these are relevant to your needs.

Also, 5,25" drives had PCB connectors (with one gap in the middle) by default, the bog-standard PC floppy cable had connectors for both these and 3,5" drives.

Teac is a good brand of floppy drives, but AFAIK these can not be flippy-modded as the Panasonic, and Atari 800 disks are flippy, so best start searching about flippy mods.
Hi Ivandiaz,

big thanks for your helpful informations.
May I ask some more questions, which answers may interest not only me but others who want to become successful KryoFluxxers?

My ATARI 5.25" have all a write-protect-notch on both sides. I think I dont need a flippy mod?!?! Yes?

Suppose I got a drive of unknown condition, which _looks_ ok so far. Is there a way -- for example with an DMM -- to check, whether it is safe to connect it to the KryFluxx board and power it up?

Suppose this drive is a little dusty...how can I clean it without disassambling it?

Thanks a lot for any help in advance!
Cheers!
mcc

ivandiaz
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by ivandiaz » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:47 pm

I personally wouldnt be so careful if the drive isn't damaged in a obvious way, but you could check for shorts between 12v and 5v, if 12v are sent in the data lines that would try the kryoflux. Measuring resistance between the power connector pins would be enough, but I don't think this a very probable scenario.

For most 5,25 drives I know removing the upper plate will expose the rails and heads that are the parts you would want to clean, this is only a metal sheet fastened by several screws, so it doesn't count as dissasembly.

That is my personal view, don't think it is even remotely official.

mcc
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mcc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:14 pm

Hi ivandiaz,

thanks again for your helpful answer! :)
Will check the power lines and the plate thing!

Cheers!
mcc

brightcaster
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by brightcaster » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:28 pm

It's not the write protection notch but the lack of a second index hole which calls for a flippy drive!

C64 and apple II drives didn't check the index at all, but every common 5,25" pc drive needs it. If you flip the disk and there is no hole for the photocell the drive will stop the motor immediately to avoid damage because it assumes the floppy stucks!

David

mcc
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mcc » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:57 pm

Hi David,

Wait...that's too fast for me...I am a newbie in this area...I ordered my Kryoflux just today... ;) :)

In turn that would mean: The ATARI 815 (the ATARI 800 single disk station) hasn't checked the index hole
at all, since cutting a second write protection notch was enough to use the disks on both sides when the
disk was flipped over.

What I currently don't understand is:
The index hole is visible from both sides of the disk. Seen from the front side it is on the right lower
part in relation to the...how should I call that...big spinning hole (sorry for the glitches in my English...no native speaker)

The drive I have is a unmodified (and currently untested) Panasonic JU-475-4 A47, which has two heads according to its datasheet.

Former users of that drive didn't need to flip over the disk to write to both sides therefore.
That means, that the index hole remains on one side...

So ... I need no flippy mod...?

I am sure there a big bug in my logic somewhere based on the experience I have with this (read: none!)...but where is it?

Thank you to shed light onto this in advance ... and for your patience... ;) :)

Cheers!
mcc

mcc
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Newbie: Where to start to read with which I have to start with?

Post by mcc » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:13 am

Hi,

I found the answer to my question here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3&p=1991#p1991

Cheers!
mcc

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