New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

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IFW
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by IFW » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:40 pm

TL;DR: yes, you can easily create BBC Micro images, and D64 files using DTC - and a lot more :D

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Modeler
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by Modeler » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:25 am

Thank you all for the invaluable information in this thread, this answers pretty much all my questions. I set up my KryoFlux board for the first time tonight, I had a 3.5" ALPS drive so I decided to test the water with some of my old Amiga disks. Wow, everything worked first go! I was able to dump my Workbench 3.0 disk to an ADF and boot WinUAE with it. I never had the means to create ADFs this easily before. I remember doing it in the 90s on my A1200 itself and copying the ADFs back to my DOS PC over a null modem cable!

I have finally got my head around the command line DTC tool as well, which I like very much. The syntax follows similar logic to FFMPEG, will have a go at writing some images back to disk soon.
IFW wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:43 pm
You can create D64 files easily: since that happens to be a CBM DOS sector image, use the format -i6 or if you want a D64 image with error map, use -i6a.
Win! :D

Now I can't wait for my 5.25" drive to arrive, bought a well-used Chinon FZ-506 for a reasonable price. I just hope it works as well as the 3.5" drive. If it doesn't, I might have to spend some serious cash on one that does. It will be worth it.

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IFW
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by IFW » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:05 pm

Glad we could help :)
Is that a flippy modded 5.25 drive? That's required for imaging side 1 of 5.25 flippy disks (e.g. C64). There are some threads on this forum about flippy disks and flippy modding 5.25 drives.

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Modeler
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by Modeler » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:48 am

IFW wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:05 pm
Is that a flippy modded 5.25 drive? That's required for imaging side 1 of 5.25 flippy disks (e.g. C64). There are some threads on this forum about flippy disks and flippy modding 5.25 drives.
No, it isn't. I now realise this is an issue. :cry:

I thought you could just turn the disk over, but that won't work will it? Since the index hole is absent...

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IFW
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by IFW » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:27 pm

Depends...
If the disk jacket has 2 index holes (pretty rare), then yes, it works, just inconvenient to flip the disk, plus if you image lots of disks, sooner or later you just forget to turn the disk, or mismatch side 0 & 1...
If you are archiving your work disks, etc. - basically anything that was not commercial material, generating a fake index signal is normally an acceptable solution (except for a few protected "scene" disks, but those are really rare).
For any flippy disk commercially duplicated (the majority of games and applications on most systems...), you should use a flippy modded drive for correctly imaging the entire disk content - the disks were written that way originally, and you'd lose the correct index position with a fake index signal (which leads to way too many problems for authentic preservation or even running the archived program, if it's copy-protected).

It's not just the lack of index signal that is the problem, on most 5.25 drives the drive read line (providing the flux reversal signals) is almost always inhibited while the drive is not in a ready state, and the drive ready state happens after having seen 2+ index signals within a specific time period.

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mr.vince
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by mr.vince » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:50 pm

If you're brave and just care about getting the data off, one solution is to take a jacket with two index holes and just cut it open. The cut open the disk you intend to dump and put the platter into the other jacket...

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Modeler
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by Modeler » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:09 am

Even though I knew where to buy a flippy-modded 'new old stock' Panasonic drive they seemed like an expensive option (which they aren't, considering the work involved to you get you what you need), so I opted to buy an older drive on eBay. Trying to hedge my bets, I actually bought two, the combined cost being almost as much as the Panasonic. Yeah, I know now...

So I now own a Chinon FZ-506 and a Teac FD-55GFR, both appear on the list of compatible drives so there was some method to my madness. The Chinon drive looks very tired (I had to scrub the contacts with baking soda in order for the device to be detected) and doesn't appear be any use to me. The drive does calibrate but the disk doesn't stop spinning and DTC reports an error "The streaming device reported missing index - no disk in drive". I concluded that either this drive has either had it, or more likely cannot recognise double density disks.

The Teac drive (the more expensive of the two) cleaned up beautifully, a little TLC and some silicone grease on the rails and it looks like new and appears to work well. I dumped one of my work disks to stream files, then made a D64 image from this. The MD5 checksum unexpectedly matches that of a dump of the same disk taken with my 1541 and ZoomFloppy. This is an encouraging start if nothing else.
IFW wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:27 pm
For any flippy disk commercially duplicated (the majority of games and applications on most systems...), you should use a flippy modded drive for correctly imaging the entire disk content - the disks were written that way originally, and you'd lose the correct index position with a fake index signal (which leads to way too many problems for authentic preservation or even running the archived program, if it's copy-protected).
Does this mean that if I have an original game that is only written on the first side, I still need a flippy-modded drive to dump it correctly? Just curious, I have seen the error of my ways and paid up for a Panasonic drive now, just got to wait for it to arrive. I will just re-home or dispose of the other two as appropriate, once I'm up and running.

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IFW
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Re: New to KryoFlux, what can (and can't) it do?

Post by IFW » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:12 pm

Well, if you are absolutely certain that side 1 contains no data whatsoever - e.g. you actually worked on that game :) -, then of course you can just image side 0.

When we (at SPS) archive any kind of disk, we never ever go for single sided dumps, as otherwise we'll never now 100% whether a game is really just a single sided disk or not and we really shouldn't assume that just because it appears to be single sided, it really is...
Some games have a different platform on side 1, e.g. C64/C128, C64/A8, C64/A2, C64+backup etc. - not always mentioned on the disk itself...
There are even cases when a disk is "recycled" by the duplicator and/or publisher and side 1 actually contains data from a different game and/or platform; however even that can be useful e.g. for verification of existing images, or even finding an unmodified side 1 of a game that otherwise would create save data on side 1.
So for 100% certainty always image both sides of a disk.

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