The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

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IFW
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by IFW » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:36 pm

Actually we've had lawyers contacting us several times.
So we prefer to stay legal rather then risk a preservation project - actually the only one for disk based software in its original, unaltered state - over it.

Petari
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by Petari » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:01 am

I understand it - of course that things depend from some others, not you.
And I do not expect anything flexible, up to date from lawyers, lawmakers. All it just supports big capital. Which is not really interested in preservation - and why should be - it brings not money :shock:

But things will change by time. It is ridiculous how they care about 20-30 years old SW, while millions of people use pirate copies of Windows, games and other brand new SW + movies (DMCA action recently was 'really' efficient - now people use RS instead MU :mrgreen: ). And you can DL almost everything at several places, usually in 1-2 days after release (publishing).
Now we have even some 'pirate' political parties :D

Petari
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by Petari » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:16 pm

I had some other cases of failed copy pretection checks in meantime. Since I did not get any decent response from people involved , will post here - maybe some people can have use of it ..
There are copy protections based on putting some specific patterns in floppy track's gap space. And they may be located close to begin or close to end of track. If SW for detection is not enough tolerant on deviations by different drives, it may happen that original will be detected as pirate copy . And it may happen by imaging too. What was the case with game Rubicon, Atari ST version - STX image available online. It may be of course that Pasti imaging tool is partially responsible for this, but I think that it is not much likely. I suggested to Ijor that do something about, but he even not replied. In case of Rubicon, copy protection is at beginning of track.

Another case, opposite is To Be On Top - where protection pattern is at end of track. Then, if index pulse is earlier than expected (used to be), latest few bytes on track will be not readen, and check will fail.

Since Kryoflux works with stock floppy drives too, same thing may happen with, I guess - unless whole reading is not related with sync. pulse ? Someone smarter than me should say here something .. :D

P.S. btw. not enough tolerant SW is not so rare case. For instance, famous, and by Atari people most respected copy SW FastCopy Pro V3 had problems with formatting on many drives - for me it never worked - and I tried with at least 3 drives.
Error was corrected in some later revision (but I never tried it later).

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mr.vince
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by mr.vince » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:11 pm

Hi Petari,

sorry, I noticed your PM on the other forum, but lost track of it because of my holidays. We always sample five consecutive (!) revolutions of each track - now you know why. This way we don't lose any data and this is why data gets processed by a preservationist when creating an IPF. Hence this should not be a problem for any IPFs.

Petari
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by Petari » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:05 pm

Thanx.
As you may see, I'm 'specialised' for some extreme situations, worst case sceneries :D
As Pasti project seems completely abandoned, I can say that it's biggest flaw is not concept or SW available - it for sure does it's job well in more than 99% cases.
Flaw is very sparsame info about usage, author's support is equal to 0 now. He shows up in forums only when sees something what may be competition for Pasti.
People doesn't know what Pasti is really capable, are their images flawless, etc.
Here, things are much better :D I just can hope that we will see soon more emulators supported. Beside playing games, it will help in case of really worst scenery - if none of 5 samples is good (drive with index pulse out of range, to say so), for intolerant SW - then can trace copy protection, and by need fix dump, so protection check will pass.

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IFW
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by IFW » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:03 pm

Just one thought: the author of any project related to hobby activities could be very busy with real work, life, family etc... so when a hobby project seems to be dead - unless the people involved say otherwise! - I'd not consider them to be dead. But you might have to wait for years until the next update happens, if ever...

Petari
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by Petari » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:44 am

Certainly - beeing busy, loosing interest temporary, getting child, etc. All it can happen.
Again, worst case scenario: in 2023 Pasti project will be revitalised - but imaging will fail in most of cases due to age of floppies, drives :(
Well, I don't remember much cases when someone explicitly said that definetly finished his work on some project. But many is abandoned. In better case sources, specs are published, so someone can continue. Actually, latest is more likely by me.
If you read txt included with Pasti tools, there is mentioned Pasti preservation team, which is supposed to verify images. At least, that part should be corrected, since there is nothing from that team visible.

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mr.vince
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Re: The case of unreliable read of fake CRC err. sector

Post by mr.vince » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:22 am

Hence we're and make it happen. :)

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