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Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:29 pm
by tomse

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:23 pm
by IFW
The disk should resolve by using -v360 -i4 (like in your first post), however it looks indeed strange, ie only some of the tracks do.
Would be interesting to see the whole disk, or an image made with a different drive.
You could also try adding -dd0 and -dd1 and see if there is any improvement.

Thanks again, very interesting so far!

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:42 pm
by tomse
I'll see what I can do.. I'll get back to you.

the other drive.. I might only be able to do thursday/friday

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:48 pm
by tomse
I seem to remember fiddling with -ddX, but right now

-v360 -i4 -dd1
works perfectly for my HD disks.

thanks alot!!

-v360 -i4 -dd0

showed MFM OK status on the HD disks


Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:12 am
by mrpijey
I tried these options myself but all I get is MFM <error> and Bad sector found errors. I had the exact same issues as the author here, except that the solution didn't work very well for me. I've had tons of issues dumping 5.25" floppies and I have no idea what is wrong. I am currently using the dodump batch file to dump all the floppies and upload to the FTP for verification, but I am completely unable to dump these into an img or anything else. The same floppies work just fine when the drive is connected to a PC so it's not an issue there, but something else...

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:43 pm
by mr.vince
If you could use the GUI, we could see some graphs. That might help.

Is the PC setup exactly the same? Eg same floppy data cable?

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:54 pm
by mrpijey
In this case it actually seems like the floppies are damaged... I've dumped them nonetheless and submitted them to SPS for analyzing, perhaps it can be fixed somehow. It's too bad we don't get access to the tools so we can analyze and fix it outselves, but I guess you have your reasons to keep both the tools and uploads to yourself.

Either way, I've uploaded a set of contributions and I hope you can make good use of it.

As for using the UI to dump 5.25" floppies, I copied the MFM profile and modified it to 360rpm, and an extra profile for 40 tracks for those 360kb floppies. I think you should include those profiles by default. I wonder, is there a profile library somewhere? I've come over some old CP/M disks which I couldn't dump properly either (I think they are single sided ones, but i am not sure) and I really don't know what profile to use so I experimented with some. But some kind of comprehensive profile settings guide for various systems and formats would be good I think. For example when dumping 5.25" IBM PC floppies the rpm should be forced to 360rpm, and when dumping 360kb floppies 40 tracks should be set. Stuff like this.

I will be getting a new drive soon as well as more floppies so I will continue to upload stuff and dump and see if I can get better results with my dumps.

Edit Well, isn't this embarrasing... after reading up on various threads I've noticed that the rpm value for 360kb floppies is 300rpm, not 360... once making a custom profile and changing it from 360rpm to 300rpm it worked out fine. All my 360kb floppies read out nicely.

I seriously think you should add default profiles for 1.2MB and 360kb floppies in the KF UI, and perhaps also add it to the manual... because there's a lot of topics about it and a general confusion about it. But to make it clear: 1.2MB: 360rpm, 360kb: 300rpm.

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:38 pm
by anormal
hi guys,

this is still very confunsing for me, and excuse for resurrecting this old thread,

i've been dumping DOS 5 1/4 disks (360K SD) for first time today, i've been unable to do it right,

i am confused with all the whole 360/300 rpm stuff,

let me explain, i use this command line for dumping a standard MSDOS 360k 5 1/4 floppy disk

dtc -fdisk -i0a -fdisk.img -i4 -dd1 -e42 -k2 -v300

i've tried with -dd1 as i see in this forum (and also in default mode), also i forced end track to 42, because my Epson SD-600 supports 83tracks, and i think 360k only had 42 tracks
also, even when i force 300rpm (with -v300), i got this:

00.0 : frev: 42441, drift: 0.021 us, tfer: 236221 B/s, rpm: 359.713
00.0 : base: 2.002 us [99.906%], band: 3.995 us, 6.005 us, 7.993 us
00.0 : MFM: OK*, trk: 000, sec: 9, *H +4
00.1 : frev: 42925, drift: 0.062 us, tfer: 235654 B/s, rpm: 359.733
00.1 : base: 2.002 us [99.896%], band: 3.996 us, 6.007 us, 7.993 us
00.1 : MFM: OK*, trk: 000, sec: 9, *H +7
01.0 : frev: 42323, drift: 0.603 us, tfer: 233971 B/s, rpm: 359.736
01.0 : base: 1.997 us [99.409%], band: 3.949 us, 5.990 us, 7.955 us
01.0 : MFM: <error>, trk: 001[000], sec: 8, bad: 3, mis: 5, *HT +3
01.0 : Bad sector found
01.0 : frev: 42335, drift: 0.208 us, tfer: 229866 B/s, rpm: 359.731
01.0 : base: 1.996 us [99.569%], band: 3.961 us, 5.988 us, 7.973 us
01.0 : MFM: <error>, trk: 001[000], sec: 8, bad: 3, mis: 5, *HT +3
01.0 : Bad sector found

could anyone explain me this? the rpm: 359... is not important?, my floppy disk (epson sd-600) works at 360rpm? but not all the 360kb floppys work at 300rpm?

how can i really force dtc to read to 300rpm?


Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:32 pm
by mr.vince
It does. Your drive does 360. Maybe it does 300 if you set -dd1. However, this is only what your drive does in the real world. Unlike other disk controllers, KryoFlux has a virtual layer. So while you read with 360 rpm physically, DTC can decode 300 and vice versa.

Re: info needed on 5 1/4" dumping

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:26 pm
by anormal
ok, i understand now, thanks mr vince

then the commandline i used is ok? maybe my floppy disk is dirty, i've not used it in 20 years or more :D

i've been trying to recover a very very rare software for PC, a disk copier called Discology, very famous in CPC and Spectrum machines,
it seems nobody remember it was also ported to PC, i finally got an original disk!

edit: futher work in this, img files get created, i can access file using dosbox (imgmount command) but file is not valid (a .Com file hangs), also i've extracted the file with another tool (a plugin for file manager FarManager 3.0) and examine the file with a disassembler (hiew) and it's not valid code

DTC.exe -fimage.img -i4 <--- don't work
dtc.exe -ftest.img -k2 -v300 -i4 <-- don't work
dtc.exe -ftest.img -k2 -v300 -i4 -dd0 <-- don't work
dtc.exe -ftest.img -k2 -v300 -i4 -dd1 <-- don't work

but then i'll try pfi/psi/pri utils in PCE, and did this:

pfi image00.0.raw -r 600000 -p decode pri disk1-mfm.pri
pri disk1-mfm.pri -p decode mfm 1.img

and NOW WORKS!, i can run the file ok, so? any hints?

any ideas why dtc is not working?

i must try more 5 1/4 360K files with dtc, but it seems the pce tools are the way to go in msdos, at least until kryoflux/dtc can provide some support for dos users

i'd add (as many users already pointed out in this forum) predefined working configs in the GUI and in the dtc.exe, as it seems -i4 doesn't differentiate 40/80 tracks (and -k2 option must be used?) for DOS floppys

sorry for this mess, i am newbie in this one, and not found a good tutorial for dumping PC floppies, and info in the forum is confusing (at least for me)