Apple II floppy question

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notbobsmith
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Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:30 am

Apple II floppy question

Post by notbobsmith »

I am trying to make an image of a disk that I can run in AppleWin. I obtained two copies. Both show bad track, but I was able to replace the bad tracks with good ones from the other copy. The problem is Track 0. In both cases, it shows as unknown. Is the track damaged or is this copy protection or something that Apple II floppies do? If so, how do I make an image? Thanks for your help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kix5u3sg7xkkj ... e.zip?dl=0

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IFW
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by IFW »

If you try DTC track 0 is decoded from both dumps without any problem using image format -i8 - but yes, it has copy-protection there.

notbobsmith
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Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:30 am

Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by notbobsmith »

Thanks, I see it now. Track 0 shows an "E" when I use the command line. I take it that this means I can't make an image that will run?

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IFW
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Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by IFW »

If the protection check is any good, no :)

spags
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Location: Australia

Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by spags »

But since you only want the image for use in AppleWin, you are going to use the AppleWin debugger to try and catch what the protection check is doing and counter it, right? Then you can add your own "Cracked by notbobsmith" intro.

I know, more easily said than done.

notbobsmith
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Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:30 am

Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by notbobsmith »

I doubt the handful of programming classes I took in college will be of much help. :) I'm one step up from "Hello World".

Anyway, I managed to (*cough*) find an image that works. It would just be nice to be able to make my own.

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IFW
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Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by IFW »

Well, I am pretty sure you'll be eventually able to use the stream files, or IPF or something along those lines - the first step is always to make tons of images, not only to backup your collection, but to help emulator authors as well (if you want to).
Alternatively you could use a hardware drive emulator connected to your real machine or write back the disk.

comradesean
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Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by comradesean »

Have a similar question. How do I know when to use i8 vs i8a? They appear to produce similar results

spags
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Location: Australia

Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by spags »

To be honest, I always thought the description of these was a bit misleading. After not doing an Apple // dump session for a while, I would always have to go and rediscover which option was the correct one to use. Then I would promptly forget this and the reasoning for my conclusion. So the following may be incorrect (as I have neither done an Apple // dump nor opened the software for quite a while now). I once thought that i8 and i8a were used to differential between DOS 3.3 and ProDOS floppies, which kind of makes sense due to different sector ordering. However I'm not sure this is really the case and I am almost certain I have used the same parameter for both DOS 3.3 and ProDOS 8 titles. Maybe this is in fact incorrect and I have simply been using a smart emulator that checks both sector orderings!

What is certain is that there is definitely a difference between the two. Using the wrong one will almost certainly result in an image that simply doesn't work.

I believe that -i8a is the one you will almost always want to use for Apple // 5.25 floppies. This includes both DOS 3.3 and ProDOS floppies.

I think (big emphasis on "think") that -i8 is what you need to use for DOS 3.2 and lower, and maybe other Apple // formats such as Pascal (not sure on that) - again on 5.25 disks.

In the Kryoflux GUI, there is also an option for Apple 400/800k floppy, which you will use for any Apple // 3.5 floppy. I don't know what parameter that is in DTC (maybe that is what -i8 is meant for and my DOS 3.2 understanding is wrong, in which case I am not sure what you would use for such older disk formats). Incidentally, I think you also use Apple 400/800k for any Macintosh 800k floppy as well.

Any Macintosh HD floppy you happen to come by will be MFM in the GUI.

If in doubt, do both and check which one works in your emulator.

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IFW
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Re: Apple II floppy question

Post by IFW »

-i8a enforces 16 sectors and re-orders the sectors to be interleaved.
The interleaving method is fixed by the OS, thus having strictly 16 sectors for sector interleaving/re-ordering is mandatory.
With -i8 you can define any parameter you like, including different number of sectors, but OS interleaving is not allowed for the above reason.

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