Convert IPF to other format

[Zorix]

Hi everyone. I do not yet have a Kryoflux so I can't test this. Hopefully I will have it delivered in a few weeks. But I am looking over the dtc command, and I notice the -m device mode switch has two options, stream and kryoflux. Why does this not have an IPF option? Or does the stream file take IPF as well? The reason I ask is because most of the games I have are MS-DOS and when I get IPF files created, I would like them to be used in DosBox, but it does not support IPF. I could just create an img file at dump time but it would be nicer if I could convert it later, just as you can with a stream. Am I missing something or what? Thanks.

[IFW]

The device mode (-m) is the source of the image file to be used; it's either the real hardware sampling a disk, or a previously sampled disk saved as stream files.
The KryoFlux host software allows the use of stream files as if the disk was just being sampled - it works like using the real media. The only difference is, that bad reads are never retried, since the content obviously won't change when read from a file.
Stream files are uncompressed, unprocessed and lossless samples recorded from a disk track and can be used for any kind of conversion later, without every touching the real disk again.

[mr.vince]

I contacted one of the maintainers of DOSBox ages ago. The answer was something like "unless this is free (GPL), get lost". Now the decoder is free under a modified MAME licence. I think it still does not fit for them... It could also be that the code is still in a state where low level floppy support - which would be needed for correct IPF interpretation, is missing.

There's no reason to convert IPF to another format, at least not if you want to keep everything IPF stands for. Otherwise a solution to access and extract the data, like a plugin for Total Commander would make more sense.

[Zorix]

So why can stream files be converted to img and not ipf? Makes no sense. I know that stream files are processed into an ipf file. Due to GPL issues, it will never be in most emulators so, while I still want my games converted to ipf for preservation they are useless for most emulators. Basically it looks like I will have to keep the stream files around or convert to img file at time of imaging as well as stream. I was just hoping for a more convenient option for setting the device either from Kryoflux, Stream, or IPF. I wouldn't think it would be that hard to do though. Thank you.

[IFW]

IPF files are authored with an authoring tool, and the process cannot be fully automated; it's based on user input and knowledge.
Anything available in DTC is fully automated, with suitable default parameters that can be overriden by the user.

[Zorix]

But I can write the IPF file to disk, and then take the disk and dump an .img from it. It's an extra step but that is automated for the most part.

[Zorix]

Maybe I didn't word it right originally. I mean from the SOURCE as IPF, and the destionation as any of the 24 image formats currently supported or any that will be in future. I'm not asking to convert stream to IPF because I know that needs to be done by your team so it's done right. But a properly made IPF file should be convertable to another lesser format.

[mr.vince]

I get your point, but again work invested for the laziness of other authors. If a format is good (or near perfect), constant conversion does not improve the situation. Again, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think we'll have the time soon as things, when they are done properly, aren't trivial. Conversion of data is always subject to e.g. regression testing, and will therefore take quite some effort.

And there are GPL emulators which support our library, e.g. WinUAE. Toni just did it, without complaining. And it of course does not violate the GPL.

[Zorix]

Thanks for your response. I understand that WinUAE is using a plugin system of some kind to load it, working around the issue with the license. I don't think most other emulators will go that route as evidence of the various other project authors reaction thus far. It's unfortunate because I do believe IPF is the superior format in every way. But the reality is that it will only be useful as an archival format, not for actual usage beyond 2 or 3 emulators. Clearly the SPS is not going to budge, and neither are most emulator authors. People like me and other Kryoflux owners are left in the middle of this rift with nothing more than an expensive device, a format which is mostly unusable to people outside of Amiga, and a sense of frustration. I don't want to come off as being demanding or ungrateful, because I think the work you all do is critical and invaluable to everyone, even if they don't know it yet. I just hope you realize who is most affected by this standoff problem. I will of course support your cause by imaging anything I can get a hold of and submitting them and just hope for the best. Thanks again, and good luck to you and your team.

[mr.vince]

I don't think the situation is as bad as you outline it. We put up the full source of our decoder tech. It's there, and if someone would want to, he could even write an own implementation and release it under the GPL. The stream file format KryoFlux generates is also fully documented and can be used to write further conversion tools. It's all there, just grab it.

WinUAE just accesses the lib dynamically, it does not directly link it, which is not a major issue. Look at HxC and how the USB-HxC tool loads our lib real time. No plugin magic required. It's a few lines of code. GPL code interfaces with proprietary Windows (and other) stuff all the time.

This does not have to do with being stubborn; we just chose to invest our time in things that need our attention because they have not been developed/researched yet. Writing an import filter for IPF in DTC would mean wasting resources we could put into other format decoders...